John - Yeah, yeah. That's exactly what I'm saying. Like, just to get into it specifically, if I go and play at a church, it's going to make sense to me to speak to, I mean it's mostly ... We all say we want our music to reach the lost, which is true, but it's mostly all Christian people coming to our concerts right? And so I speak to them with kind of Christian, the way Christians talk and the way we understand things. So maybe I'll tell the story about the woman at the well who came to Jesus and Jesus told her if she drank the water He had to offer, she'd never thirst again ... something like that. I guess what I mean is you talk like that to Christian people because you know they've been in church and they know that story so it's going to make some kind of sense to them. But you do that to a non-Christian and they're just confused. They don't know what you're talking about. And it's the same way with coming in and giving a big gospel presentation. There comes a consistency in church life that people who aren't believers don't have. They've never heard that. They come to a rock concert and they're confused. Why did they pay $15 to get into a show and for a quarter of your show you're talking. (laughs) So I think that's actually a big issue. I began singing about that a couple of years ago. Just feeling like "are we almost tricking people into coming to a church service when they just want to hear a rock concert?" Now, granted, if they receive Christ, what we have to offer is better than a rock concert, but are we really meeting them where they're at? Are they really understanding what these Bible stories are? Is there a better way to do it? And that's when God kind-of began speaking to me about is there some way to meet people on a social level, maybe, that's not been done before? And I don't mean gospel-less. For instance, with the war that's going on ... is it worth talking about September 11th and the war? Is it worth talking about these things and the fear that we live with today at a concert with a lot of non-believers? Maybe that's going to hit them more where they're at than me sharing a story about the woman at the well. Or maybe it's going to hit them more than me coming straight out and saying Jesus and them getting confused and leaving. Because we are living in a society that is so Christian. For instance, a year ago I had in my mind I'm going to share Jesus with somebody today because on the road we don't have any kind of real, oh, what's that word? Because we're always seeing new people, we don't have any time for friendship evangelism, like when you get to know somebody and you're there for them at your work or whatever. And we always see new people, so I decided that I was going to share Jesus with some people at Wendy's right? Cuz I love Wendy's. And I was eating and there were these three older woman, not old, just like in their 50's, and I thought, you know what, I'm going to go talk to these ladies about Jesus. So I went over and I said "hey, how's it going? How about if I buy you guys frosty's and I'll tell you about how great Jesus is". And they just freaked out. They just about cursed me out. They wanted nothing to do with me. I was thinking, you know, they're not 15. They're probably thinking, at some point, about their future, you know, what's life about. But our society is so full of religion, and I don't mean just Christianity, but religion in general, that when somebody does something like that you get very nervous. Because there are so many strange people and everybody's heard it all. There are so many weird ... you know (laughs) "Let me tell you about Jesus. We just bombed an abortion clinic" or something. Who knows what they're thinking? So I started thinking, instead of that, make it more relevant for people. Whatever it is, for instance, just talking about Sept. 11th has been such an amazing bridge to talk to people about my faith. Way more than I ever had before. Those are the kind of things ... I know it's a really long explanation, but you start talking in generalities and it just starts to not make sense sometimes and you get confused.
Kim - Going back to the HM interview, you talked about how you feel like a lot of Christian artists delude themselves into thinking that they're affecting culture and reaching the masses when they're really not. You called a couple of songs by name, that were done by Christian groups that had crossed over into a secular market and you were dead on the money. They were good songs but there was no Christian content. The songs may have been reaching the masses, but the question that comes to mind is, reaching them with what?
John - Right.
